rate_review Reviews

That's a whole lot of words to say a whole lot of nothing. The conditions of how men were trialed in cases of rape during that time is completely irrelevant to the point I'm making. No shit there would be no story without the rape, and nor how sadistic Tavington was in the other story has any bearing in this. The author did not show a 3 dimensional character. Caroline's actions throughout mid-way of the story was flakey at best, pretentious cheap dialogue with an unrealistic attitude. Her actions spoke of a victim not raped, how hard is that for your brain to compute? The fact that she stayed in the relationship with him is not what I'm disputing either. She may be able to forgive or give in to her marriage with Tavington, but during that timespan from the point she was raped until the time she gave in, is where the author failed the character of any realization.

Get it now?

My, my. "Long-winded rant?" I seem to have hit a nerve, for your rant was equally long. Hmmm. Yes, I did read your review. I disagree with it.

Yes, I've read "All's Fair." This is not the place to discuss another author's work, but since you make an issue of it, fine. I'm glad you like "All's Fair." It's a very well-written story. However, I have problems with it because of its historical flaws. All the heroine would have had to do in that situation is get on a horse and tell Cornwallis what had happened (or even send a letter). Tavington would have been cashiered. There are two documented cases of exactly what happened in cases of rape in the British Legion. Two men were hanged, and the others sentenced to near-fatal floggings. Of course, unless Tavington gets away with rape, there is no plot. In addition, I don't particularly care for the characterization of a overtly sadisitic Tavington, going back repeatedly and playing with a helpless woman. It's simply not to my taste. Besides, when would he have the time? Too many Tavington fics seem to posit a world in which he can spend unlimited time obsessing over the heroine. A one-shot crime of opportunity seemed more believable to me.

I have no idea why you persist in flaming this author. Part of the reason I replied to the review in the first place was its unnecessarily rude and nasty tone. It's a puzzle to me why good stories are flamed and the masses of tripe on this site are given a pass. You write very well. Why not write your own fic that expresses clearly how you think this situation should be dealt with? It's always the best answer when you feel that other authors have just not grasped a concept fully. Of course, you might put yourself in the position of having a story you have spent a great deal of effort into creating being flamed (there is such a thing as a constructively critical review).

I stand by my analysis of this story. Call it brainwashing, call it conditioning, call it Stockholm Syndrome if you will, but women throughout history have been forced into marriage under dreadful conditions and they've had to find a way to live with it, however horrible that sounds. It's not clear to me what kind of "emotional" rebellion you mean. Would it be physically helpful for Caroline to provoke Tavington into more outright violence? And would it be emotionally helpful to her? At some point, a woman with no means of redress must either break down or find a way to forgive.

So, how about giving it a rest?

My, my. "Long-winded rant?" I seem to have hit a nerve, for your rant was equally long. Hmmm. Yes, I did read your review. I disagree with it.

Yes, I've read "All's Fair." This is not the place to discuss another author's work, but since you make an issue of it, fine. I'm glad you like "All's Fair." It's a very well-written story. However, I have problems with it because of its historical flaws. All the heroine would have had to do in that situation is get on a horse and tell Cornwallis what had happened (or even send a letter). Tavington would have been cashiered. There are two documented cases of exactly what happened in cases of rape in the British Legion. Two men were hanged, and the others sentenced to near-fatal floggings. Of course, unless Tavington gets away with rape, there is no plot. In addition, I don't particularly care for the characterization of a overtly sadisitic Tavington, going back repeatedly and playing with a helpless woman. It's simply not to my taste. Besides, when would he have the time? Too many Tavington fics seem to posit a world in which he can spend unlimited time obsessing over the heroine. A one-shot crime of opportunity seemed more believable to me.

I have no idea why you persist in flaming this author. Part of the reason I replied to the review in the first place was its unnecessarily rude and nasty tone. It's a puzzle to me why good stories are flamed and the masses of tripe on this site are given a pass. You write very well. Why not write your own fic that expresses clearly how you think this situation should be dealt with? It's always the best answer when you feel that other authors have just not grasped a concept fully. Of course, you might put yourself in the position of having a story you have spent a great deal of effort into creating being flamed (there is such a thing as a constructively critical review).

I stand by my analysis of this story. Call it brainwashing, call it conditioning, call it Stockholm Syndrome if you will, but women throughout history have been forced into marriage under dreadful conditions and they've had to find a way to live with it, however horrible that sounds. It's not clear to me what kind of "emotional" rebellion you mean. Would it be physically helpful for Caroline to provoke Tavington into more outright violence? And would it be emotionally helpful to her? At some point, a woman with no means of redress must either break down or find a way to forgive.

So, how about giving it a rest?

Did you read my post? Obviously you did not, otherwise you wouldn't have gone off on your longwinded misplaced rant, *Yawn*. Many women back from those times were locked into positions from which they could not escape; I am not disputing how life was for women in those times or why she didn't run away, what I am debating is Caroline's attitude involving the situation. You think that just because she's in a forced marriage it's pointless for Caroline to display anger and other range of emotions, because she can't do anything with her anger? So what she can't take him to a marriage counselor or some other nonsense, the point is to show the reader that in fact this woman is a human being who is hurting from a devastating trauma and how is the story going to evolve from that? And yes, some actions taken back then concerning rape of women, may not be the same actions that today’s women take, but either way the point is to show the emotion of that character realistically, which the author did not do.

Anger? What exactly can an 18th century married woman do with her anger? Kill her husband and hang? Take him to court? Take him to a marriage counselor?

Get a clue. Don't tell me on one page a woman is raped by her husband, and in the next her attitude is that of a woman that has never suffered the emotional distress of rape and is not the least bit resentful of her husband. That is why I asked the author, where is Caroline's anger and thoughts in all of this? This can be described no better than Stockholm Syndrome, identifying with the perpetrator instead of rebelling. Just in case you misinterpret, rebelling doesn't necessarily mean physical, it could be an emotional rebellion.

When I read a story about a woman's rape, I expect the writer to convey the complexities of the situation - the anger, the sadness, the emotional turmoil within the character, leading to a confrontation and eventually a resolution between the victim and the attacker about the subject, and then to move on from there. This was not done, she was raped and the author proceeded within the next chapters, having Caroline giving him a bath and giggling over his hotness. Deplorable. I kept waiting, but the story never confronted the issue of the rape or the slaughter of her brothers, just drifted along with her self-delusion of what a "great guy" Tavington is and then ended there. Disgusting. However most importantly, the writer failed to show Tavington had any remorse for what he had done to Caroline and his treatment to Jane (supposedly who he really loved), leaving all the making up (dealing with the rape and overcoming it) left for Caroline to deal with. You can write all the pretty words you want and have a good grasp of grammar, but if you can't structure your story with a well designed plot or characters does it really matter how fucking well you string a sentence together? Post Memnoch the Devil, author Anne Rice comes to mind.

Take a look at the Tavington fic, “All’s Fair” by Iris Rosalind. The setup is similar to this story – a woman is raped and falls for her rapist, however Ms. Rosalind understands the meaning of character growth and is excellent at showing the reader the horror of this woman’s situation.

http://www.geocities.com/iris_rosalind/allsfair_ch1.html

I really don't agree with the previous reviewer. I think this story does an excellent job setting its place and time, and the plot must be seen in that context. Anger? What exactly can an 18th century married woman do with her anger? Kill her husband and hang? Take him to court? Take him to a marriage counselor? We are talking about a time in wihich women are chattels, can own no property within marriage, and in which the concept of spousal rape is unknown. Arranged marriages were common, and it was not unknown for girls to be locked in their rooms until their wedding day. So what should Caroline, penniless and pregnant, do? Should she run away? In the midst of war? Where? How? Her own father acknowledges her husband's right of possession. If she goes elsewhere, what could a pregnant young girl do? Well, we know that she would have a good statistical chance of becoming a prostitute. Is that better? Don't think so. We could have her run off and have some sort of brilliant career, but thus are Mary Sues born. I'm aware that there were remarkable women in the period, but Caroline is not depicted as a person of great maturity or extraordinary talent. Furthermore, all we have to do is look at contemporary traditional societies to see examples of marriage by rape, capture, or kidnapping, to get an idea of how women realistically deal with these dreadful circumstances. In our own comfortable, developed First World societies, women have many choices. In traditional societies, women have very few.
As to sneering at the campfollower--what is she supposed to say? That Tavington isn't hot? He's her livelihood, the father of her child, and her only hope of not having to walk the streets, so to speak. Actually, the story is an interesting study of functional polygamy. There are some real life examples in the period. Major Patrick Ferguson had a pair of mistresses that he toted about with him: The Duke of Devonshire lived with both his wife and his mistress. It's a mistake to imagine that all "old-time" people had Victorian social mores. The Victorians were largely reacting to what they viewed as the license of the Georgian period.

And please don't flame me with a diatribe about the horrible crime of rape, and how it's a crime of power. I've heard it all before. (And I believe that's the theme of the story) Obviously rape is monstrous, but to expect someone from a different society to have or make the choices available now is not reasonable. Nor would the victim's reactions necessarily be identical to a woman in our own place and time (and even now then there are wide, individualistic variations). Caroline endeavors to survive in the best way she can, and she succeeds. In fact, as we see the couple in the epilogue, it is evident that fatherhood and domesticity have at least somewhat tamed Tavington, and shown him Caroline's worth. She will always have the high moral ground in their relationship, and that would actually count for a good deal. Indeed, I'm rather relieved that the author didn't turn the character as presented in canon into a big gooey old sweetheart, humbliy begging his wife on bended knee for absolution. That is for soap operas.

So--Stockholm Syndrome? Hell, yes. That's a modern term for what many past and present societies would call a happy marriage. Horrible, but true.

While I'm at it, I would like to point out how well written this story is. Sound plot, good dialogue. After seeing scores of empty-headed squeeing fangirl fics, this is a great pleasure, and very good historical fiction.

What did your story try to accomplish? How a woman struggles to keep her dignity bound in marriage with a monster? Or to tell us, that even a though a woman can be raped and have her brothers killed by the same man, she will put this behind her without a second thought and fall helplessly in love with the man who committed these crimes? The story was severely disjointed, the two women Jane and Caroline were outrageously unbelievable and disgusting. In a few lines this is how your story reads." Hi Jane I'm Caroline I was raped but still think Tavington is hot. Hi Caroline, I'm Jane and I know I'm just Tavington's whore, but I love him too. Great let's be friends. Oh Joy!" Where was the conflict and sense of morals? Where was Caroline's pain and struggles with the horrible situation? Where the hell was her ANGER and fight to get away from this man!? And why wouldn't Jane even give at least an inkling of thought to what Tavington did to Caroline, or for that matter be repulsed by him? From the actions of the the two women in the story Tavington could rape a thousand women and Jane wouldn't care and Caroline what can I say she's suffering from a serious bout of Stockholm Syndrome.

From the many excellent love from rape stories I've read, there's one thing that all the authors accomplished – making the badasses sympathetic and unraveling from them some flaw or sincere human emotion to take them out of the bad light and make them redeemable in the eyes of the reader. Reading fragment's of Tavington's abusive father wasn't enough to give him my sympathy or to like seeing him be with Caroline in the end. Tavington's actions did nothing to show that he was a changed man and he was the same old scummy bastard from page one. Caroline hardly reflected on her rape since she was to busy giggling over how hot Tavington was. She accepted his emotional abuse and repeated rapes and became an obedient wife who supported her husband regardless. Horrible characters I hated them all.

Concerning the ending, the entire story did not need to drag on for chapters on end beating us over the head with yes they were treated like trash but Tavington is hot who cares beyond that. The entire story involved two incredibly stupid yes women that barely thought about the atrocities committed towards them. For a love from rape story, this one is a no. And please for the sake of all who read your story, get a spell checker.

I love this story, every time I read it Tavington becomes more attractive to me. A brilliant piece of work that I come back to every so often!

Whoa! He had to marry her! Cool! I'm enjoying this! How long will he let her live?

Two babies on the way! Somebody's got testosterone poisoning! Loved the doggie-style action with Caroline. Very sexy and evil.

The ending was kind of happy/sad but I liked it. I really liked it that Tav didn't die. So Caroline is a contented baby machine. It makes sense. It also makes sense that Tav would take care of his property. Best of luck to them! Thanks for a great story! And I love your name!